Mahara Wayman [00:00:05]:
Welcome to the art of badassery where I explore what it takes to live life on your own terms, break free from the status quo, and unleash your inner badass. Whether you're a rebel at heart or simply seeking inspiration to step outside your comfort zone, this podcast is for you. I'm your host Mahara Wayman and each week I dive into the stories, insights, and strategies of those who've mastered the art of badassery and are living life to the fullest. They smile when no one is looking. Welcome to the Art of Badassery podcast. My name is Mahara, and I'm really excited to introduce you to Robin McTague. Robin's journey took her from a chaotic childhood in British Columbia and Manitoba to studying psychology and counseling. Initially very shy, she later embraced teaching meditation, energy healing, and the Enneagram.
Mahara Wayman [00:01:01]:
We're gonna hear all about that today. After securing a union job and advocating for others for 13 years, a breast cancer diagnosis led her back to her spiritual roots. Now based in Vancouver, BC, Robynne supports individuals, couples, and teams through her healing business. She loves nature walks, flower photography, live theater, and lifelong learning. No wonder she's badass. Join us today as we talk about her inspiring story and get some insights on healing and personal growth. Welcome to the show, Robin. I'm really excited.
Robyn McTague [00:01:36]:
Thanks so much for having me.
Mahara Wayman [00:01:39]:
A fellow Vancouverite or or British Columbian, I should say. I live in Alberta now, but I'm I when I first immigrated to Canada, I moved to Richmond, BC. So we're peas in a pod. Robin, when you first when you saw my my post looking for guests on the art of badassery, what was the first thing that came into your mind?
Robyn McTague [00:01:58]:
I just loved that word. I really loved that you, you know, brought that forward to, yeah, let's be badass. And it's it's really, to me, about the excitement, that energy. In the Enneagram, we talk about our instinctual nature, and one of those is that kind of really passion that comes forward. And to me, that's what it excited me. That thing those things that we really feel the energy ignite us, It doesn't have to be sexual. It can include that, but it's like listening to a piece of music that you get lost in or, you know, art or whatever it is for you. And so that's why I really love just that sense of excitement in the moment.
Robyn McTague [00:02:47]:
So good. But what
Mahara Wayman [00:02:50]:
what made you think I need to be on that show? Like, what is it why you badass girlfriend? That's what I'm asking. Come on.
Robyn McTague [00:02:57]:
Okay. Yeah. Just there is nothing that has stopped me from moving forward. And, you know, despite the challenges, despite not getting supports that I needed or wanted at the time, It was, I need to put one foot in front of the other and it's not going to stop me, you know, getting out of the bad marriage, doing the different things. It took me 10 years to get my degree at night because I had to work and I didn't have a car. I bussed 3 buses up to SFU, and if I missed a bus, it was another hour coming back. So I'd be home late in early morning sometimes and still got up and got to work. So there was that drive within me.
Robyn McTague [00:03:47]:
It's like nothing's gonna stop me.
Mahara Wayman [00:03:50]:
Okay. That's definitely a component to feeling badass. But what were some of the original you mentioned a couple challenges right there, but can you take us back to when you first needed to feel badass or needed to act on that feeling?
Robyn McTague [00:04:04]:
Yeah. When I was younger, I didn't really feel I had that option because of the circumstances. So when I really finally took a stance for myself, I was a teenager and my mom's way of dealing with things was to move. It was kind of the geographical cure I called it. So it's my dad was killed. It was a very challenging situation, even though they hadn't been together for a long time, they both were raised Catholics, so they never divorced, but he was beaten up and robbed. And so police brought his bloody clothes to her, Like, why they would do that, I don't know. So that center of the edge, she had, a lot of mental health issues, and so she was moving again.
Robyn McTague [00:04:53]:
And I had was finally putting down roots in Cranbrook and had friends. I had a part time job. You know, I had money for myself finally that I didn't have before, and I didn't wanna move for my last couple of years of high school. And I just said, no. I'm not moving again. And just something inside me was like, no, I'm taking a stand for myself. And it was the best decision I ever made because not only did it give me that confidence that I could say what I needed, I could see that the man she was moving in with was probably another pedophile. So my instincts were there.
Robyn McTague [00:05:33]:
It's like, no, I'm not going anywhere near him. And then my friend that I was doing the janitor work with ended up moving in with his family and just had an amazing second family, which we're still friends. I still visit to this day. And my other mom, as I called her, was just really wise and accepting. And I finally felt accepted for who I was. So I started to really blossom and be more involved in things. And she lived 3 weeks short of a 100, and we still talked about all sorts of philosophy and everything right up until the end. She was just amazing.
Mahara Wayman [00:06:13]:
Wow. What a story. And, you know, one of the things that comes up quite a lot when I talk to guests is the more authentic, the more we can be comfortable with who we are and our thoughts and our feelings and and what we want out of our lives, the more badass we feel. In a way, I feel it's tragic that we need to work so hard to be ourselves, So much so that we actually call it being badass, but that seems to be the reality for many of us in our lives today. For lots of reasons, we have squelched or we stayed quiet. But the fact that you could find that strength at such a young age is pretty awesome and quite, quite badass for sure. Was there anything after that that allowed you the opportunity to be even more so, or was that, like, once you rip the Band Aid off, it was like balls to the walls? Did I just say that balls to the walls? What's an expression? From. Oh my god.
Mahara Wayman [00:07:12]:
That can't be good, but you know what I mean. Yes. Well, unfortunately,
Robyn McTague [00:07:20]:
you know, we have to learn and we continue to repeat. We have energetic patterns and I continued that. I, you know, last year of high school people said, well, what are you going to do? Are you going to go to university? Like, what what are you going to do? And it's like, it wasn't in my frame of reference because I was the first one to finish high school, let alone go on to do anything else. So I did. I got bursaries and went to university, went to soccer college first, and then I came here to the coast, SFU. And I got mixed up in a really bad situation in a home where the mom was an alcoholic. The girls went through my stuff. They, you know, invaded my privacy, read my journals, and then I got involved with her son who ended up being a junkie, got all my stuff stolen, you know, ended up dropping out of school and having to go part time because I needed to work so I didn't, have anyone to fund me and had student loans by then.
Robyn McTague [00:08:36]:
And so kind of had to keep going through that, and I had to make that stand again. We, you know, we separated, and I finally found a house to live like a group of people renting a house when you could afford that here in the Vancouver area.
Mahara Wayman [00:08:54]:
And them days are gone.
Robyn McTague [00:08:56]:
And they're gone. And then we ended up meeting again, and there was this stance. And I remember so distinctly. And it was like, do you want to go down to the east side and and get some drugs? And I just took a stand and said no and walked away. And it's like, I'm not interested in that lifestyle. Like, I didn't know, like, I got sucked into that. I didn't realize at the time until I was kind of in the thick of it. And then it was like, where do I go? I have nowhere to go.
Robyn McTague [00:09:31]:
So I felt that desperation, but then found that place within me, that kind of quiet center that said, no, this is not for you, you know, And therefore the grace of God go I, you know, we see these people on the street.
Mahara Wayman [00:09:46]:
What a story. And I'm so glad that you made that decision. And sometimes it takes a lot of courage to be badass. You know, it takes a lot of courage to face our fears and and or look at the the unknown because often well, I know for myself. I can say no to something, which is fine, but I don't know what the alternative is gonna look like. So there's definitely would you say in your life as well, there's been a level of trust that you had to embody and embrace as you navigated challenges throughout your life and and dis and displayed acts of badassery?
Robyn McTague [00:10:22]:
Absolutely. Because, yeah, it's taking that step right into the void, and it feels scary because we don't know. But that's that's why I love the Enneagram work because there's this law, different laws that we talk about. And there's this law of 3 where we can hold kind of disparate things. And then when we do, something new can come out of that. So the knowing and not knowing, for example. How do we deal with that? Because there's, we can't know everything. You know, we want to control life and especially those of us who have some kind of trauma.
Robyn McTague [00:10:57]:
It's like that was our way of kind of clenching down and and trying to control things. And we have to give that up because we can't. We can do our part, but it's really that step by step where it's like, okay, this needs to unfold. What's my next step? I don't need to know the end. And that's the way we're kind of raised in our society, go from a to b, but it's really what is that right next step. And then out of that will come something else. Okay. Before we jump into what you're doing today, because I'm fascinated with Nina and you, Graham, by the way, tell
Mahara Wayman [00:11:33]:
us a bit about your corporate life.
Robyn McTague [00:11:36]:
Yeah. So I worked, first, it was used to be called BCTEL, which is TELUS now. I was there for 5 years, and that's where I got involved first with the union work, which I really loved. I loved the advocacy and just, you know, we do everything else in our life. We expect to have a contract for our mortgage, for our car, all these things, and it's the same with our work. Right? This is our time, and we should be compensated properly. And to think that, you know, some people misalign unions or to this or to that. But really, would you do anything else that's so big a part of your life without a contract? Really, to me, it's comes down to that basic, you know, I'm giving you a service, my time, and energy to support your business.
Robyn McTague [00:12:32]:
And so really seeing that, and then we got locked out for 3 weeks no, 3 months near the end, and that's when I applied when I was didn't have a job. And, then just I just got back to work and then got the call from WorkSafe. So went to work there for 34 years. The 13 years was the advocacy work. So as, chair of the shop stewards on the executive and these different things, and we made some huge changes. You know, it was the eighties where women's we had the first women's committee. We got more, pay equity. We looked at things that's such in such a different way, looking at the old guard, right, and allowing women to do jobs that were traditionally male jobs like officers.
Robyn McTague [00:13:25]:
I chaired our central safety committee for 10 years to shift the reason that people would go in. The men would go in because it was a stepping stone to their, to getting the job as a safety officer, which was the job that they wanted. And it's like, no, we need to look at people and how are they being treated at work? What are the health and safety issues that are here? We just started to talk about stress at that point. It wasn't considered, you know, a health issue at the time. So bringing the agenda forward for for things that were really important to people, but it was really foreign as well. So having to really shift perspectives, we had women's conferences. We did it differently with providing day care benefits, and things like that.
Mahara Wayman [00:14:22]:
So would you say that you were a pioneer in in the women's movement for BCTEL?
Robyn McTague [00:14:30]:
BCTEL, not so much, which was interesting because there, I had what would now be considered a sexual harassment issue with 1 of the leaders. It was still, you know, this male dominated, we're away at conference, let's play and it's like, no, not for me. And so really it was at Worksafe that we really did a lot of work and changed things and yeah we were pioneers and unfortunately one of my cohorts, she just passed away recently from Parkinson's, but she stayed and really became a business agent and really carried forward the work that we started.
Mahara Wayman [00:15:19]:
Well, it sounds like that was a, a breeding ground for lots of acts of badassery, especially at in those times. And, you know, it's interesting because it's 2024, and I lived through the eighties. You know, we're of a similar generation, and I I can't believe that it's taken this long for for women to have some of the rights that we have today. I'm not gonna go down that political path, but I just wanna say thank you for all the work that you've done on behalf of us in that in that field, really. Thanks. You. And,
Robyn McTague [00:15:51]:
yeah, it was so rewarding to, you know, have choices. I think that was the biggest thing. Right? And that's why I'm kind of a life of choice because we do need choices. Like, they asked us to do a medical exam with their doctor to get hired. Like, it was very invasive, so we had it switched where we could go to our own doctor and have the form submitted. But just really human things. Right? We and we now we think it's just normal, so it's really interesting and great that things have changed to some degree. Always more to do.
Mahara Wayman [00:16:29]:
So let's jump forward a little bit to your cancer diagnosis. What role did that play in your growth?
Robyn McTague [00:16:39]:
Well, it was huge. It was interesting because I really had started to reopen to kind of messages that I was getting in a more, spiritual psychic kind of nature, and I kind of had that when I was younger. There was a situation I had to live with my cousins for a year when my mom was in hospital. And being a shy kid, I very seldom spoke back to the teacher. But this particular day, I said, I wanna do my art project this morning. And she said, no, we're doing it in the afternoon. And I was quite insistent. No, I want to do it this morning.
Robyn McTague [00:17:20]:
And she'd say, why? And I, I don't know. But then I got back at lunchtime and my mom was there to take me away that she returned for me. So somehow I had that connection. So what happened with the cancer, I kept hearing messages, something big in your life is going to happen and something would happen. It's like, no, that's not it until the diagnosis. And, you know, it's a shock to me, but it's also a shock to the people in my life because here I looked healthy. Right? I I was running. I ate really well.
Robyn McTague [00:17:59]:
So on the outside I looked really healthy, but the stress, I was doing everything for everyone else. I was working full time, union stuff on the side, strata council, you name it. Right? There was no time left for me. And, you know, my body just is like, this is enough. And if if you're familiar with Louise Hay, she talks about different part body parts and the breast is nurturing. And that's what I didn't have growing up, right? My mom couldn't nurture herself or didn't know what that was with all her health and mental health challenges, so I didn't really receive that. So I had to learn to do that for myself. And, really, what happened is I sat on my sofa.
Robyn McTague [00:18:45]:
I just went deep. I allowed out the feelings that had been stuck there because I, you know, had to just be in survival mode and and get things done and move forward, but I hadn't dealt with the emotional aspects. And I went to a retreat, and that's when I really felt that reawakening. I saw a time when I was 4, and I could have died at that point in the hands of my dad, and I didn't. And that was kind of that split that I've had with my spiritual part. It was like, I'm not safe. There's no one here to support me. And so I kinda shut that down, and then I reopened it to see that if I hadn't had that support, I wouldn't be here today.
Robyn McTague [00:19:33]:
Right? So really reframe and allowing those feelings, allowing all the fear, the sadness, the grief, the, you know, all of that. And that was a huge turning point. And then what happened was I was having challenges going back to work because of being around all these stressed out people. Our office was quite big. It was like over a 1000 people in the office, and we worked with people who were injured on the job. So they're in a lot of pain. They're acting out because they need help, and it's like, I don't know. I might have to quit.
Robyn McTague [00:20:13]:
And then I met a woman at a wine, cheese, and tarot card reading party, and she said, oh, I took this class where you get energy shields. So I was in class the next week and that first shield, I felt better. I could say, you know, this is my energy and that's someone else's. And, yeah, the 4 weeks was just amazing. I felt so much better. I started to really learn to take care of myself and then became a teacher of it. And so that's part of what I do today is to really help people to see, you know, we can shift our vibration. We don't have to be defined by the past.
Robyn McTague [00:20:54]:
We can work with those patterns that we have and move beyond them. We have to acknowledge them and and have that kindness for ourselves and compassion, but then we can move forward. We don't have to get stuck in that survival mode anymore.
Mahara Wayman [00:21:10]:
Oh, so powerful. And, you know, sort of three words that I I always bring up with my coaching clients is awareness, acceptance, and aligned action. 1st, you gotta be aware. And I think to your point, you were saying earlier that, you know, you sat down on your couch and you you really went deep and felt the feelings. My question is, what tips can you share with the audience to not be afraid of those feelings? Because I think what holds a lot of us back is, hey. I'm ignoring those feelings for a reason. Right? Because it's painful as hell, and I don't wanna go there. But what I my understanding, what I've experienced today is if you give them some attention, they will go.
Mahara Wayman [00:21:54]:
We just need to learn to change our relationship with the memory or even our relationship with the memory or even our relationship with the feeling, recognize it as a feeling, and then be able to sort of step step away from that. But what would you say are some practical things that you can share that helped you to get up off the couch, for example, after that first time of of going going deep?
Robyn McTague [00:22:16]:
Yeah. And I think the biggest thing is and I had that thinking. It's like, if I go into this deep, am I gonna get out the other side? So I'm here to tell you, you will, number 1. And the other thing is understanding emotions. We do think we're gonna get stuck in there and we're never gonna get out, but emotions flow through when we allow them. It's when we stop them that they get stuck. So allowing the feelings to move through because often when we're dealing with something, it brings up the same emotion from before that we haven't actually dealt with like grief, grief and anger to huge emotions that most people our society doesn't really acknowledge nor do we help individuals on how to deal with that to know that there are healthy ways to deal with it. Like, when I train in conflict resolution, telling people and showing them that we actually have that moment before we express the anger to actually make a choice how we do that.
Robyn McTague [00:23:21]:
Like, a lot of people are surprised. Do you mean I have the actual agency to do that? Right? It's taking that breath to notice what's going on in our body. So it's really about befriending our body, loving it for whatever it's going through, and allowing the emotions. And that's where inner child work comes in, where we can allow our young parts of ourselves to feel safe because just witnessing it is a huge piece for ourselves because we weren't acknowledged when we were young. So when we can have that moment to say, yeah, that was really hard, you know, and you're you don't have to go through it again. I think that's the other part that people think I'm going to relive it. We're not going to relive it. We may have parts come forward and have that ability to see it, but we we're not gonna go back in there.
Robyn McTague [00:24:17]:
Right? We've been through the experience. So knowing things are temporary, knowing that we can have a dialogue with it. And that's why I like the shadow work, right, where we talk to those parts to see what's going on. What what does it want me to know? So that then I have some insight from it? So having that calmness to say, yeah. I may be crying for on and off for a day or 2. I'll get through it, and it's temporary. I think those are the the biggest things. And, you know, if and knowing that we can have different emotions at the same time, I think that's the other thing that people get confused about.
Robyn McTague [00:25:04]:
Well, how can I feel angry and sad at the same time or joyful and sad or whatever the combination is? We can have a bunch of emotions, and we cycle through and they can be there at the same time. So not making any of it wrong. There's no right way to do it, you know, and that's why the self help industry sometimes gets a bad rap because it's like, just do these steps and and this is you know, you'll be through it and that's it. No. It's like in psychology, we talk about the onion, right, and the different layers. So that's just how it goes. We get bits, We relax from it. Maybe go back later.
Robyn McTague [00:25:52]:
It doesn't have to be the same day, like, just allowing a flow with it.
Mahara Wayman [00:25:56]:
Love the idea of allowing the flow. And what I've learned from experience the hard way is I I inadvertently kept the kept the the feeling strong because I created a story around the feeling. And I think that's pretty I think that's human nature for us to do that, but, really, when we cannot create the story and just to have just experience the feeling, then that's when the feeling can can flow through. But, you know, I feel terrible, therefore, I am terrible because I did this or this happened. Instantly, we've created a story. And, you know, we're great storytellers, but sometimes it's bullshit. Right? Sometimes we're saying things that just aren't true, but the story itself keeps it alive. So I think I know when I work with my clients, that's one of the things and what what helped me was recognizing the narrative that I spun around the feeling because it was the narrative that kept it alive.
Robyn McTague [00:26:52]:
Yeah. Absolutely. Right? Because as humans, we wanna make sense of it. So it's like, okay, I can see that because of this. Right? We're we're kind of, back in the other part of the brain where we're not in the emotion anymore. We're intellectualizing it, and that was definitely my story. Right? I knew it all intellectually from all my training, but I didn't have the emotional aspect to to really fully have that holistic healing to to bring it all, you know, mental, emotional, spiritual, and physical. So so good.
Mahara Wayman [00:27:28]:
Okay. So how did you land? When did you leave, I guess, Worksafe and stuff?
Robyn McTague [00:27:35]:
9 years ago now. And, you know, having started younger, it was nice. I had the years of service, and so I could go off on my own. And I had an amazing trip for kind of my retirement trip. I did, Antarctica, Buenos Aires, and Easter Island.
Mahara Wayman [00:27:59]:
Okay. Wow.
Robyn McTague [00:28:01]:
It was amazing. I literally cried coming into Antarctica. It was just so beautiful, so peaceful. The purity there is just so amazing. And so, yeah, it was really an amazing trip. And then just my mom passed away just the year. Like, I had just left, and then so I dealt with that for a year with, you know, being an executor and all of that. And then it was what's next.
Robyn McTague [00:28:37]:
And, you know, even though I was trained in the counseling and I did it in kind of different ways through work, but I wasn't really, like, focused on that. So I took some extra courses. I I'd already trained in the conflict resolution and the psychology and counseling, and then I added the motivational map. I met it's interesting, I met 2 of my mentors at a networking event that I went to once and never went back to. And so my mentor for the motivational map, she lives in New West, which isn't too far, and she's kind of the trainer for North America. So, yeah, a really wonderful person, really knowledgeable, and the map was so precise and gave so much information. It's like, wow. I have to learn this, and it's partly based on the enneagram.
Robyn McTague [00:29:29]:
So I did that deeper dive. It's like being a high growth person, which a lot of entrepreneurs are, you know, there's a shiny object syndrome, but it's like I really looked at you know, that doesn't serve me. I need to go deep on the things that really interest me. So with the Enneagram pre COVID, I was going down to the US for training and then COVID happened and then some of the really great people who really started a lot of the Enneagram more in the sixties, seventies like, Russ Hudson went online. So I had the opportunity over the last couple of years to do the certification for consciousness and for Enneagram teacher. So I really love that kind of grassroots, really knowing deeply, like, he knows, I think, his PhD in world religions and saw the philosophical, all the depth work we can do with it rather than the kind of superficial stuff we see in social media. Right? I'm this type, and then I do this. It's like then then that's really sticking us in that box rather than getting us out of the box personality.
Mahara Wayman [00:30:44]:
Yeah. I'm familiar with EnuGram because I've I it was a part of my certification program, but there may be some listeners that really aren't. I mean, it's a word that you may have heard, but would you mind explaining it in a bit of in a little bit more detail for those of us that aren't as familiar.
Robyn McTague [00:31:01]:
Yeah. It's a psycho spiritual tool. Originally, it came the symbol came from Gurdjieff in the east and came to North America in the sixties, really 50s 60s, and then the psychological aspects came in. So really what it looks at is 9 styles of seeing the world and we need all 9 and we have bits of all of them within us, but we have one main starting point that gives us our greatest path for growth and transformation. And so it's a way, a reality strategy that we use. We come into the world with a temperament. We're born with it. Studies actually show that now, neurobiology, Dan Siegel and different people, and then our environment helps to shape it.
Robyn McTague [00:31:53]:
So it really helps us with every aspect of our life, like parenting. It's such a gift, I think, for parents to have a better understanding because if you have different viewpoints, you're wondering why can't I do what's right for my child? Why are we all always at odds? But when we see, oh, well, this personality style has more fear coming up. So I need to acknowledge that more so they feel more safe, give them more information, more kind of details and stuff that they need whereas others, you know, off on their own, maybe they're really great at achieving things. So there's lots of different ways we can work with it but what I like with both the map and the Enneagram is that path rather than just saying I'm I n t f j or whatever it is. Right? Rather than just describing, it's actually a transformational path.
Mahara Wayman [00:32:57]:
Okay. So how does that relate to the astrological chart? Because that's something that I'm you know, I think many of us are more familiar with just with your signs. Right? It's a pretty common question. Oh, what sign are you? How do how do the 2 relate? Is there a component of astrology in in the Enneagram work?
Robyn McTague [00:33:14]:
There is not. I know in human design there is, which I've just tipped my toe in, and I'm not not going there because you can get lost in the rabbit hole with that. But there have been people that have tried to look at that but haven't really found any connection. So it's really I've what I find fascinating because I love numbers, which I didn't really before, but now I see all the connections. I do numerology as well, so I see I would love to do a study and look at Enneagram type and numerology. Like for myself, I'm a 6 in both of those systems, so I kind of got that double responsibility viewpoint, which I did, right, because I was more of a parent to my mom from age 4 than, she was to me, and I've had to really learn that, and I can see where I can be overly responsible. So learning that response ability, what is my ability to respond? So it really helps to name things for ourselves and to see those parts of ourselves that maybe are a bit invisible to us and, and why we do those things.
Mahara Wayman [00:34:28]:
So what's the biggest thing that you've learned about yourself through your studies of the meditation map and the enneagram?
Robyn McTague [00:34:34]:
One of the big things I found with the enneagram is learning what support is, because that's a real need from that Enneagram 6 viewpoint is, like, I want support. I need support. I you know, at the beginning, I can't trust myself. I need to find that outside of myself when I'm less mature in my type because we have different levels of development. So it's always looking externally for that support, But not knowing what it was and not being able to ask for it was a huge challenge for me, and I was able to learn that with the enneagram. I remember speaking to one of my colleagues at work, and I was off. I also had hepatitis c, so I was off work for 6 months with that. And I we were putting food together for our manager's wife who was sick with breast cancer and I said to my colleague, how come no one did anything for me when I was off sick? And he said, I don't know but I never asked.
Robyn McTague [00:35:43]:
I never looked like I was needy. I kept that distance, right? And so learning what that support is, how to ask for it was huge for me, right? Most of us are not great at asking for help to begin with and it was just doubly so for me, but I really had to learn. Yeah. We can't do it alone, and I can't ask for what I need. It's not a shaming thing because when I was growing up, you were shamed for asking what your needs were.
Mahara Wayman [00:36:16]:
Yeah. I'm learning every day that life is a team sport. And I think it's you know, even right now as the Olympics are going on, that's coming I think more people are having this conversation around, wow, That's this is a great example of support, not only within the teams, you know, and the coaches and and the athletes, but with the athletes amongst themselves and in particular with women athletes among themselves. The support that we're seeing is, I think, remarkable and perhaps quite new in the Olympic venue anyway. So support is huge. Okay. I love that you've learned that about yourself. When you work with clients using the Enneagram, how have most of your clients interacted with that modality? Because it is could be thought of as fairly new.
Robyn McTague [00:37:05]:
Yeah. I that's why I do like to start with the motivational map because it's much clearer, right? So they get that sense and I actually get people to guess what are their top 3 and what's their bottom one. Our top 3 account for 60 to 70 percent of our behavior and our bottom one can kind of color our worldview. So for my learning it was my friend was really low because when I was working, I was working full time, lunchtime was my fitness, and so I saw people who wanted more of my time that I wanted to give them as needy. Instead of saying that's just, that's how they get energized is by relationships. So I'd do the big holiday lunches and stuff, but most of the time, and I could move around in the workplace. I loved that because I'd learn new things, do new projects, you know help build up a department. So that was really energizing to me.
Robyn McTague [00:38:01]:
But some people can stay in a job too long or leave because of the people because that's more important to them. But when they, when I can make the invisible visible and say, you know, this is what's driving your behavior and see where there's where potential internal conflicts are, it makes a huge and opening of their viewpoint to then be open to the Enneagram to go deeper with the personality piece and the different aspects of how they see that and how that plays out in their relationships and and their work life and the different parts of things.
Mahara Wayman [00:38:40]:
Clarity is everything. Knowledge is power. But what is a motivational map based on? Is it a detailed questionnaire that allows you to understand someone's motivation and then map it out, or is it based on something else?
Robyn McTague [00:38:54]:
Yeah. It's based on a few different things. It is an assessment. It only takes about 12 minutes. It's very very simple to do, and it's the main three pieces are Schein's Square Anchors, Maslow's hierarchy of needs, and the Enneagram. And so motivation changes over time so our personality is basically set, that's the Enneagram piece, and then how we see our current life and how we see the future changes. If you think about it, you know, even a couple years ago it can be as little as 2 years and I think that happened a lot with COVID. Could be you know 10 years, but what was important to us before changes as we grow.
Robyn McTague [00:39:38]:
And so that Maslow's hierarchy of needs, which is a psychological representation of growth from our bottom needs, which is, you know, basic food and shelter up to self actualization. And so if we're lower in the pyramid, we want more information. We want slow change. If we're at the top, we like fast change. We want quick bottom line communication. I like to point out people who go to a landing page and go to the bottom to see what what, you know, what's the cost? What's this? What's that? Those are the high growth. Just give me the bottom line. So this is where communication issues can come in between people because of different styles and different things.
Robyn McTague [00:40:28]:
So there's that piece of knowing ourselves, and then we can see where is that balance sometimes. Am I so focused on the growth or something else that I'm missing out on the other things? And that's what I've found right as an entrepreneur. It's all about relationships. All of life is really about relationships, but bringing more context and reframing to say, yeah I need to spend some time making that part of my life and not just forgetting about it. So really being able to look at what are the different parts that need attention in my life.
Mahara Wayman [00:41:19]:
So what's the biggest change that you personally have experienced? Like, what was your big moment as you dove into motivational mapping, for example?
Robyn McTague [00:41:29]:
Definitely about the friend. That was that was huge for me to really see how low that was in my map. And it's not that I was bad at relationships. It just I didn't put the focus on that. Like, follow ups, we know we hear it all the time. You know? You need to do the follow-up. Well if it's not in our frame of reference we're not going to do that. Other things will become more important and that piece about creation, like we have the creator, the spirit, and we've got, like, 3 in each of the buckets of relationship, achievement, and growth.
Robyn McTague [00:42:13]:
And so seeing those parts of my needs when it's really strong, it goes from a want to a need. So if I don't have that in my life I'm not going to be satisfied, and as an entrepreneur where we're not getting the feedback we love that feedback. So depending on the motivator there's different kind of reward strategies that energize us and so realizing I needed to get some kind of feedback loop and that's why we see people in masterminds and different groups and Facebook groups. People want community. They want feedback. They want that connection. And so seeing what do I need to add into my life to have that. Again, like you say, not doing it alone, but realizing what with some coaches, I think it's really important too.
Robyn McTague [00:43:06]:
We see this with the Enneagram that we can't expect that all to come from our clients. And I think that's one of the challenges we have to face is that we want that feedback so we kind of get addicted to it. Right? So I'm helping them, they're doing really great so I feel good about myself and we use that as kind of a crutch for our self esteem instead of really getting that from the inside out and really, you know, it's a job I need to do myself as well. It's great to have that and it's great to have those testimonials when I'm feeling a bit down then I can see, yeah, I am helping people. Right? Because because when we get demotivated it's kind of hard to see until we're kind of on the couch and not doing things anymore, you know, the Netflix and all of that. So it's really about that awareness and watching myself, having people post their map to say, yeah. My energy is dipping. What's missing in my motivation here? And and then doing it every couple of years to just see if things have changed.
Mahara Wayman [00:44:16]:
So so good. I remember reading, and I think we talk about it quite a bit in the industry is your outside world is a direct reflection of your inside world. So never forget to work to do the work, like, as whether regardless of what you do for a living. You know? If you wanna know if you wanna change what's happening in your in your world, chances are you're gonna have to change what's happening on the inside. And whether you do that through a a life coach, an Enneagram coach, or whatever, just a therapy counseling or just chatting with your best friend. Part of being a badass is asking the tough questions. And I'm pretty sure it was Henry Ford that said the quality of your life can be be determined by the quality of the questions you ask. Okay.
Mahara Wayman [00:45:01]:
I'm not sure it's Henry Ford, but I know somebody quite famous made that quote. And that's not a that's not a word for word quote. But the idea basically is Tony Robbins, that's who said it, is get used to asking great questions because then that's how you create a great life. So would you say, Robin, that over the years, part of your badassery has been your willingness to ask really great questions of yourself and perhaps of those around you?
Robyn McTague [00:45:27]:
Yeah. And, you know, that is one of the part of my personality, also my astrology, is that curiosity. I'm a Libra and we we do, right, we we want that engagement, we are curious, and, you know, it would get me in trouble when I was young, but as I got older it actually was a benefit so I started to ask again, but it was really I would say one of the other things besides asking the questions, which to me the biggest one is, like, what's going on for me right now? Like, when we have those reactions, when we're not feeling in alignment, whatever it is, it's like this is a time to go inside to see what's going on because the outside is triggering me in some way and and what is it about that person, the situation, whatever it is that's doing that And my kind of mantra from conflict resolution is be curious. All behavior makes sense. So to that person, it makes total sense. To me, it might not. It's like, what the hell are they doing? Right? It's like, I don't understand what's going on with them. But instead of being reactive, can I take a breath and start asking questions? Like, oh, I'm really curious about that.
Robyn McTague [00:46:53]:
Can you tell me more about it? Like, just opening it up instead of closing it down, and this is where we often get into challenges with people because we just react and then we shut down.
Mahara Wayman [00:47:07]:
I know as I've gotten further along my journey, I still struggle with feeling frustrated when even if I ask a great question. And I don't mean with clients. I I've actually, I mean with my family. When I ask great questions and they're not not able to answer, I still have this level of frustration like, what do you mean you don't know what you want for dinner? For god's sakes, just like, what do you feel like? Oh, my husband can't make a decision or, you know, he can, but often he just really waivers, and it still drives me to drink. I'm like, you know what? I'm not making 2 dinners. So you either eat what I make or you don't. It's all good. But I do think that it's for me, I do struggle with it seems so simple.
Mahara Wayman [00:47:49]:
It's a pretty simple question. What do you feel like eating? And, you know, sometimes people just can't answer. Has that ever happened where the frustration that people aren't either growing at the same rate as you are or exhibiting what, in your opinion, is pretty simple stuff kinda drives you nuts?
Robyn McTague [00:48:09]:
Yeah. And I've learned to be more at peace with it because, yeah, it's like, why don't you know? But then, you know, there are certain personality types that they don't know and it's honest where for some people it's about keeping the peace. So I don't wanna give my preference. Other people because it's all about the other person, I don't really know what that is because I haven't taken the time to allow myself to even feel into it. And some people just kind of go fuzzy and it's like, I don't know. So they're so having a deeper understanding of what's going on for them, yeah, it can be frustrating, but I think I have more patience with it than I used to, I would say. And because I'm pretty independent, it just drives me to more independence then, which may not always be a good thing, right? I mean, yes, I like it because I go off and do what I want, but it doesn't, you know, build the community piece. So I do other things around that, but if I want to go off to a concert, I'm not going to wait around for 2 weeks for people to decide because I know the tickets are going to sell out.
Robyn McTague [00:49:28]:
So I'll just buy a ticket. Right? And that's how I've dealt with it a lot. It's just like, I know what I enjoy doing, so I'm just going to do it. I'm not going to wait around for others because I can't decide. And I do have certain friends, like tonight we're going to Bard on the Beach and, you know, it's a festival we do every year together, and so we always plan our tickets and our events together. So I kind of balance it out with some people. We have that set up, and then other things I just go do it by myself and, you know, that sense of independence gives me more freedom in that way.
Mahara Wayman [00:50:06]:
Total badassery. One thing that I do wanna highlight, though, is that it's not necessarily a bad thing to not know what you do want. It's okay. If you can articulate what you don't want, it'll give you highlights of what it is that you do want. Right? Because those that's I was taught that a long time ago is fine. If you don't know what you want, tell me what you don't want. Because life as we as we progress is either taking action towards what we want more of or what we want less of. Right? So we've gotta be very clear.
Mahara Wayman [00:50:37]:
If I don't I don't necessarily know what I want, but I definitely know I don't want that anymore.
Robyn McTague [00:50:43]:
Yeah. And and the thing is we can choose differently. Right? We can make a choice, and we most likely will have an opportunity to make a different choice if that one doesn't work out.
Mahara Wayman [00:50:55]:
Absolutely. Another tip of being badass is that we don't beat ourselves up if if we have to pivot or make new choices along the way. Because truthfully, to your point, life is constantly changing. We are always gonna have to make in fact, I don't know what the science is, but it's we make a gazillion choices in a day. A few a few thousand for sure. I don't know the exact number, but we are constantly making choices. I think part of being a badass is, a, recognizing that we do have choice, and, b, being very curious about what that choice could look like for us and and to get us where we wanna go. Part of being a badass for sure.
Mahara Wayman [00:51:34]:
Robin, how can people connect with you? How can they work with you? Is everything online? Just give us a little bit of information about that. Folks, check the show notes because everything that she shares is gonna be there. But for those that are listening now, how can people work with you?
Robyn McTague [00:51:50]:
I'm on Facebook, and I'm on LinkedIn. And the web site is alifeofchoice.ca since it's Canada. And, yeah, there's different things on there. There's some book chapters and different things there that people can check out, and contact information is all there
Mahara Wayman [00:52:13]:
as well. Wonderful. Number one tip for feeling badass on
Robyn McTague [00:52:17]:
a day to day basis, what would you share? Know that you're worth it, and that comes from within. Your presence is more than enough.
Mahara Wayman [00:52:25]:
I love that. Yeah. It does come from within, and you don't have to prove yourself. We don't none of us have to prove ourselves. The mere fact that we exist is is enough to know that we're worth it. Robin, thank you so much for joining me this morning. My name is Mahara. This has been the Art of Badassery.
Mahara Wayman [00:52:41]:
Let us know your thoughts on this episode. What did you think? What's your biggest takeaway? My name is Mahara. I'll see you next week on the art of badassery. Take care. Thanks for tuning in to another badass episode. Your support means the world to me. So if you enjoyed what you heard today, don't forget to like, share, and rate the episode on your favorite podcast platform. Your feedback keeps the badassery flowing.
Mahara Wayman [00:53:06]:
And, hey, if you're ready to unleash your inner badass and conquer whatever life throws your way, why not book a complimentary badass breakthrough session? Just click the link in the show notes to schedule your session, and let's kick some serious butt together. Until next time, stay fearless, stay fabulous, and, of course, stay badass. This is Mahara signing off.
